Thank you for such honesty when describing your struggle, Sarb. Hopefully you are working with young people across this age range as you will have such an awesome understanding of the confusion of the developing brain, and the difficulties involved in working out a pathway to the future.
Thanks Juliet. I did work with younger people much more when I was in London. Apart from a stint at the Ministry of Youth Development in NZ, and the odd case that came through my clinical doors. Maybe the opportunity will come up again. But I know that I will offer guidance to my kids, and allow them to not specialise onto a firm pathway too soon.
Thanks Sarb. These sorts of stories are hard to revisit and often still raw. I had a similar experience. I found my way in the end, but only after a few failures. In retrospect, I would have benefited from four or five years in the workforce or just being out on my own before university. I do wonder how our system could/should change to give undeveloped brains (especially boys) more space and time.
Cheers, Bernard. Yes, I think we are forced to specialise far too soon because of the wider needs of the workforce. Not just in terms of career path, but specialised paths through school exam curriculum choices too. Now that might be fine if we had the infrastructure in place for people to change path several times during their working lives. But we don’t.
Great question. A multi-layered answer I think (isn't it always?) First, I think we specialise too early before 16. Leaving aside problems with basic reading / writing / numeracy skills that need addressing, I think something like a baccalaureate is an interesting thing to explore. That would also allow for a breadth of subjects to be continued post-16, enabling people who want to study more technical subjects at University to do so. Universities are already having to spend time, 'catching up' students because their knowledge has fallen behind compared to previous cohorts. At the same time, more vocational choices should be available at 13/14 to be taken through to 16 for those wish to go into the workplace. I know the NCEA is capable perhaps of doing this, but it doesn't seem to be working - I'm not sure about that though. Feel free to chime in, anyone.
Alongside that, we need more post-16 vocational training colleges that are also open to adults wishing to retrain. This can work alongside a lifelong apprenticeship model, where on-the-job skills training is also available. We can't just leave this to YouTube. Careers counselling through the lifespan needs to be completely rethought.
If we are really talking about lifelong learning, then why have adult education opportunities been cut to the bone? They also need to run not just as night schools - if we are serious about lifelong learning, then treat it seriously with resources and time, designing and implementing urgently.
Life happens. Jobs change. Society changes. Lifespans are longer. Don't force people to make their leisure activities into side hustles just to make ends meet. It's just soul-destroying in the end, and serves no-one well.
Gosh reading your story brought back memories. I went to school in the same era as you in the 80s UK. When It was time for me to choose my subjects I was good in the Creative Arts, but my father was adamant that I should do Technical Drawing, Math, Physics and Chemistry. Dad wanted me to follow in his footsteps of Marine Engineering.
So I did and 40 years later I’m so far removed from marine engineering! My parents had a farm at the time so they pushed me in that direction as a plan B and that lasted 4 years but not enough to take it over! An offer to go to South Africa for 6 months was a welcome relief sadly during Apartheid. I rather enjoyed working on the dairy farm and how funny that I now live in NZ the perfect place to own your own dairy /arable farm. I’m pleased Sarb you worked out what you really aspired to and how to get there eventually with the right support. I could have too I guess I just didn’t have the confidence or the encouragement at the time. No-ones fault my parents had the best intentions.
My claim to fame now is that I have the most random quirky qualifications that are pretty useless to me in my fifties but I guess I had amazing experiences along the way.
Who else on here has an HGV license that one can only use in in South Africa! I win :)
I think you might well win, Paul! There were several other forks in the road, but aren’t there always? Stories for another time, but they could have been full-time DJ (I had a serious intervention from my PhD supervisor asking me which was I was going to go), Senior Civil Servant in the UK, and Personal Trainer. Life, eh? So clear in the rear view mirror. I also think sometimes about the life I may have had if my parents didn't leave for the UK. Perhaps a farmer? Perhaps a politician - my Great Uncle was a politician in the Congress Party (I had a go in NZ too). And yes, our parents often have the best intentions, especially ones that have immigrated. They want to ease the path for their children, but perhaps the path they choose is not the one we would choose ourselves.
A reassuring reply Thank you. DJ Johal is playing at Glastonbury ha it has a great beat to it! I’ve just been in contact with a very old friend (Manju) in Manchester she called me Lambu = Tall, the very first day she met me in Brighton 30 years ago. I am seeing her in 4 weeks! Enjoy your week all .
There are few straight paths in life.
Do you remember doing Brownian motion at school? That. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownian_motion
Thank you for such honesty when describing your struggle, Sarb. Hopefully you are working with young people across this age range as you will have such an awesome understanding of the confusion of the developing brain, and the difficulties involved in working out a pathway to the future.
Thanks Juliet. I did work with younger people much more when I was in London. Apart from a stint at the Ministry of Youth Development in NZ, and the odd case that came through my clinical doors. Maybe the opportunity will come up again. But I know that I will offer guidance to my kids, and allow them to not specialise onto a firm pathway too soon.
Thanks Sarb. These sorts of stories are hard to revisit and often still raw. I had a similar experience. I found my way in the end, but only after a few failures. In retrospect, I would have benefited from four or five years in the workforce or just being out on my own before university. I do wonder how our system could/should change to give undeveloped brains (especially boys) more space and time.
Cheers, Bernard. Yes, I think we are forced to specialise far too soon because of the wider needs of the workforce. Not just in terms of career path, but specialised paths through school exam curriculum choices too. Now that might be fine if we had the infrastructure in place for people to change path several times during their working lives. But we don’t.
What do you think that infrastructure should be?
Great question. A multi-layered answer I think (isn't it always?) First, I think we specialise too early before 16. Leaving aside problems with basic reading / writing / numeracy skills that need addressing, I think something like a baccalaureate is an interesting thing to explore. That would also allow for a breadth of subjects to be continued post-16, enabling people who want to study more technical subjects at University to do so. Universities are already having to spend time, 'catching up' students because their knowledge has fallen behind compared to previous cohorts. At the same time, more vocational choices should be available at 13/14 to be taken through to 16 for those wish to go into the workplace. I know the NCEA is capable perhaps of doing this, but it doesn't seem to be working - I'm not sure about that though. Feel free to chime in, anyone.
Alongside that, we need more post-16 vocational training colleges that are also open to adults wishing to retrain. This can work alongside a lifelong apprenticeship model, where on-the-job skills training is also available. We can't just leave this to YouTube. Careers counselling through the lifespan needs to be completely rethought.
If we are really talking about lifelong learning, then why have adult education opportunities been cut to the bone? They also need to run not just as night schools - if we are serious about lifelong learning, then treat it seriously with resources and time, designing and implementing urgently.
Life happens. Jobs change. Society changes. Lifespans are longer. Don't force people to make their leisure activities into side hustles just to make ends meet. It's just soul-destroying in the end, and serves no-one well.
Gosh reading your story brought back memories. I went to school in the same era as you in the 80s UK. When It was time for me to choose my subjects I was good in the Creative Arts, but my father was adamant that I should do Technical Drawing, Math, Physics and Chemistry. Dad wanted me to follow in his footsteps of Marine Engineering.
So I did and 40 years later I’m so far removed from marine engineering! My parents had a farm at the time so they pushed me in that direction as a plan B and that lasted 4 years but not enough to take it over! An offer to go to South Africa for 6 months was a welcome relief sadly during Apartheid. I rather enjoyed working on the dairy farm and how funny that I now live in NZ the perfect place to own your own dairy /arable farm. I’m pleased Sarb you worked out what you really aspired to and how to get there eventually with the right support. I could have too I guess I just didn’t have the confidence or the encouragement at the time. No-ones fault my parents had the best intentions.
My claim to fame now is that I have the most random quirky qualifications that are pretty useless to me in my fifties but I guess I had amazing experiences along the way.
Who else on here has an HGV license that one can only use in in South Africa! I win :)
I think you might well win, Paul! There were several other forks in the road, but aren’t there always? Stories for another time, but they could have been full-time DJ (I had a serious intervention from my PhD supervisor asking me which was I was going to go), Senior Civil Servant in the UK, and Personal Trainer. Life, eh? So clear in the rear view mirror. I also think sometimes about the life I may have had if my parents didn't leave for the UK. Perhaps a farmer? Perhaps a politician - my Great Uncle was a politician in the Congress Party (I had a go in NZ too). And yes, our parents often have the best intentions, especially ones that have immigrated. They want to ease the path for their children, but perhaps the path they choose is not the one we would choose ourselves.
A reassuring reply Thank you. DJ Johal is playing at Glastonbury ha it has a great beat to it! I’ve just been in contact with a very old friend (Manju) in Manchester she called me Lambu = Tall, the very first day she met me in Brighton 30 years ago. I am seeing her in 4 weeks! Enjoy your week all .
Wonderful! :)